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Benn Robinson fixes his eyes into the distance, and the words painfully exit his mouth: "It hurts big time".
The 66-Test veteran has been dropped from the Wallabies - again - and must call on his significant resolve to claw back the gold jersey - again.
But this has been a uniquely devastating blow even for Robinson, a man unfortunately getting used to consolation phone calls from national coaches.
The emotion is visible and audible.
He is a far cry from his usual amiable self; a character nicknamed "Cat" known for his friendly hellos, quick-witted one-liners and cheeky smile.
One week after discovering he is not in Ewen McKenzie's 32-man squad for the three-Test series against France, Robinson has opened up about his heartbreak to the Daily Telegraph.
"It's a tough one to answer ... I've been involved with the Wallabies for eight or nine years now and I still think I've got plenty to offer. But to get that phone call, it was hard," Robinson says.
When it is pointed out that he has overcome such hurdles before, Robinson's frustration is clear.
"The disappointing for me is, I'd prefer not to have these knock backs," he says.
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"I am a player that is a consistent player, it's just disappointing that you get knocked back and then you get brought back in the side, and at the moment I'm out of the squad."
Robinson was left out of McKenzie's Rugby Championship squad last year, and found himself playing club rugby for Eastwood while the Wallabies were confronting the All Blacks.
But as he had before, Robinson fought back into the national team by the time the South Africa-Argentina tour leg of the tournament came up, and finished the year as Australia's back-up loosehead.
This Super Rugby season, Robinson has established himself as the Waratahs' first-choice loosie ahead of Sekope Kepu - who has been picked in the Wallabies squad - and he also doubles as the team's scrum coach.
But it wasn't enough for McKenzie, who sees youngster Scott Sio, Force veteran Pek Cowan and incumbent James Slipper as more capable options, while Kepu can play both sides of the scrum.
"Personally I think I've been playing good footy, my game has been improving since the first game," Robinson says.
"If you want to look at stats my numbers have been increasing week by week by week. Our scrum has been improving week by week.
"I think I've been getting better.
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"I still class myself as young, I still believe I'm learning and that my game is adapting.
"I'm working under a great style of footy here which is a lot different to what we've played in the past.
"If I stop learning or think I've reached my maximum potential of learning, I'll give the game up.
"But I'm still learning the game."
Yet it has even been suggested in some quarters that the latest snub signals the end of Robinson's international career.
"Hopefully not, I'm still 29," Robinson says.
"I haven't played in a World Cup so that's still a big ambition of mine.
"If Ewen or any of the other selectors believe I am ready then I'm going to put my hand up as high as possible."
On Saturday, against the Chiefs in New Plymouth, Robinson will become the most capped Super Rugby front rower in Waratahs history, surpassing the 121 games played by Al Baxter.
It puts him second only to Phil Waugh (132 Super Rugby caps), a mark he will surely break next year if he stays injury free.
But Robinson isn't about to stop and start celebrating. He keeps his eyes on the distance.
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